Shield, Bows, 2handers - loot rule changes.

[Xslia]

Hell why not go all the way and just get rid of DKP and have people assign loot.

Who remembers the old channel (I think it got killed off just as I joined of what was it leatherdkp?)

Will we now have a bowdkp, a shielddkp and a 2handerdkp channel?

... the Leatherdkp channel was an attempt by a raider (non leader) to bully, intimidate, pressure people into bidding as he wanted it to happen ... THAT lasted until i got a tell about it and was told I was not to be told about it.. neither the channel or the raider continued.

[Xslia]

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone - it's been a collection of bidding for the last 2 years that has brought us to this point. There were knights also bidding on 2hdrs to improve their dps (over zerkers) - well because they wanted to be dps, very seldom do we ask our knights to be dps on raids and since we have like 5 zerkers - with 2hdrs, it will not be long before non-zerkers can bid on 2hdrs.

Weather it was in tells or PM's Eagles, it was the fact your rot point was 350 for an item if you wanted it over another class - shield or 2hdr. That does not make you any different from anyone else that has "rot points", but I will go back and correct the 350 to 150, some of the information gets a bit garbled over the months when I'm log in and end up in night tell lock downs because someone was ask not to bid and they are having heartburn over it. It make me ineffective as dps on raids because I'm having to deal with the fallout of the tells, explain the situation, etc. I want this raid force equipped as raiders.

I'm perfectly willing to modify/tweak the rule as we see what occurs the next few weeks. The first thing I'm going to do is nail down a penalty for collectors. 100 dkp fine, if you bid on another like item of the same tier - so use lucy - raid loot, alla's whatever - but nail down what item you want from that tier.

[Augustas-]

We. were. sending. tells.
- I don't like being threaten, it's my dkp and I'll spend it like I want.
- There is no rule saying I cannot bid on that
- Show me where in the rules it says I cannot bid on that
- I don't like being told I should not be bidding on X item when I want it
- You don't have a rule against it.
- Its a free system, I'm allowed to bid on that because it has my class on it.

you're going too soft on these kids. you were brought up under the iron fist of ashorty, make them feel the pain and suffering.

[Augustas-]

on that note, does anyone know where i can find the ashorty quote generator?

[Eagles]

Weather it was in tells or PM's Eagles, it was the fact your rot point was 350 for an item if you wanted it over another class - shield or 2hdr. That does not make you any different from anyone else that has "rot points", but I will go back and correct the 350 to 150, some of the information gets a bit garbled over the months when I'm log in and end up in night tell lock downs because someone was ask not to bid and they are having heartburn over it. It make me ineffective as dps on raids because I'm having to deal with the fallout of the tells, explain the situation, etc. I want this raid force equipped as raiders.

My point was that the point I would bid for something that would have replaced a group gear item that I use a lot. It was not really a "rot point" something at 350 is not rot. I imagine everyone has differnt "drop out" points based on what gear they have in that spot. For example I will go higher on a back item (group gear), or a neck item (tower), or range (Kranigan steel behemoths) then I would on legs (T3). And as I objected to the post wether 350 or 150 the Berserker got the item not the monk. A "monk" did not get an item for any points then over a berserker, the berserker got it and the system worked. Having talked to Stomp about that particular item he had a higher stop point then I did, would he have preferred to get it for 1, sure who would not but it did not get priced out of hsi range to the detriment of the raid force.

For example the mask that dropped last night from SS4 is a very nice mask with Backstab +25. Yes this is obviously much more usful for a rogue and Kotter wound up getting it. I dropped out when he raised it to 100 because it was past the point I would bid for it, my mask is Convorteum. My point is that everyone values differnt items trough their own lens and partialy by how much DKP they have stored up. What might be worth 20 DKP to one person might be worth 100 DKP to someone else, that is why we bid on stuff rather then using a flat price system. By helping the 20 DKP person you are harming the person who wanted it more.

Now this may be just my "politcal thought" leaking into the game..... But when government decides to "help the free market" I find it usually makes things worse. *laugh* and this next line is meant as a joke.... "Perhaps we should have a 25% tax on people with over 50% attend to be distributed among those who have the misfortune to not be able to raid as much". Or put it in a slush fund to help those who made poor decisions in the past and overspent on items....

Ok enough of my politcal rant

[Pravus]

edited(double post)

[Pravus]

Now this may be just my "politcal thought" leaking into the game..... But when government decides to "help the free market" I find it usually makes things worse. *laugh* and this next line is meant as a joke.... "Perhaps we should have a 25% tax on people with over 50% attend to be distributed among those who have the misfortune to not be able to raid as much". Or put it in a slush fund to help those who made poor decisions in the past and overspent on items....
Ok enough of my politcal rant

so your saying if i dont look to the future my betters will do it for me so i dont have to forecast my wants, sign me up, im a capitalist at heart but this new socialist ideal you speak of makes me want to switch sides

[Xslia]

Lets see how this goes the next few weeks.

I don't know about you all but I have about 20 other slots that need reviewed for upgrades, some worst then others. I have no issues waiting for a shield (in my case) for market saturation while I fill out my other slots, or waiting for the caster only one to drop. but that's just me.

[Eagles]

Lets see how this goes the next few weeks.

I don't know about you all but I have about 20 other slots that need reviewed for upgrades, some worst then others. I have no issues waiting for a shield (in my case) for market saturation while I fill out my other slots, or waiting for the caster only one to drop. but that's just me.

Fair enough....

[Zephur]

Lets see how this goes the next few weeks.

I don't know about you all but I have about 20 other slots that need reviewed for upgrades, some worst then others. I have no issues waiting for a shield (in my case) for market saturation while I fill out my other slots, or waiting for the caster only one to drop. but that's just me.

Ahh thats because you're using a 2hander?

[jaerlyn]

@ Eagles - Let's be clear on this,Eagles. I'm not talking about -my- interpretation of anything. I'm talking about what YOU, YOURSELF said. YOU said the 2 hander (from MC) was NOT, repeat, NOT a dps upgrade, and that you ONLY wanted it for tanking, in the group game.

Please don't try to twist and misrepresent things, to try to make things look different, or yourself look better. If you're going to post, at least BE HONEST in your posts. If needed, I can pull it from logs, and get your exact wording, if you like.

[Zephur]

I have to say that when the berzerker already had a t4 weapon and wasn't even sure if it was a dps upgrade to get that new one, then WHATS THE PROBLEM?

As for those shields and bows, its supply and demand. If there are less people to fight for it, there is no reason to pay as much, just wait till its half price next time and half of that next and so on till its 1dkp in a month.

[Damaddar]

Does anyone remember Underfoot? specifically the Brath encounter? That expansion is probably widely accepted as the hardest EQ raid expansion. The difficulty came solely from everything hitting extremely hard. Other than the occasional person who silenced the entire raid during The Beast or kiting deaths on Unburrowing and Badger events, the vast majority of raid wipes were mainly caused from the difficulty of keeping tanks alive. As much fun as challenging content is, it is no fun to farm the same 4 events for a couple months only to watch tanks have to outbid a non tank for a shield, and also no fun to watch a tank waste all dkp on a weapon (i've seen it go both ways).

I can also see how this rule can be worrisome for some (as somebody mentioned that this could avalanche into even more priorities (Wizards get arm focus first because it is the most raw dps upgrade out of any class, Warriors get tier breastplate first because of xyz, etc.). Speaking as a Bard, bards simply do not need gear at all. All of our focus effects for instruments capped off on Demiplane of Blood gear. Bards also technically benefit the least from weapons as well. This also makes us the least priority for Ferocity and Cleave upgrades. Even when you get down to non-tier slots, who cares if i have 1000 less hp when i can just use fading memories? Even if i were to take a round from a raid boss, i can just use deftdance (bard weaponshield), and then fade and lose agro. You do have to draw the line somewhere though, we aren't a bleeding edge raid guild, so i think this new rule is perfectly fine (you shouldn't need the AC a raid shield provides to solo group content, even as a non tank.)

I think the new rule is fair, and it is worth the temporary frustration in the long run(For example, i like daggers because their attack speed synergizes the best with my abilities, (heroic strength and shawl proc). As much as I want to, I would never bid above 51 for a dagger if a rogue was bidding on it (the guy might be a rogue, but if he's not there...).

Having a better geared raid allows for faster progression (and not stuck doing 5 events), which in the end leads to more farming time, where you can pick up extra loot then.

[Pravus]

I think the new rule is fair, and it is worth the temporary frustration in the long run(For example, i like daggers because their attack speed synergizes the best with my abilities, (heroic strength and shawl proc). As much as I want to, I would never bid above 51 for a dagger if a rogue was bidding on it (the guy might be a rogue, but if he's not there...).

so to clarify you WOULD bid up to 51, implying the rogue is declaring his true interest by going above 51? sounds vaguely familiar to what those of us who do not agree with the new rule are asking for. Your drop out is 51 mines 21, it tells me that a raider is interested enough in a piece of gear to forgo winning other loots in the rest of the evenings raids

[Eagles]

@ Eagles - Let's be clear on this,Eagles. I'm not talking about -my- interpretation of anything. I'm talking about what YOU, YOURSELF said. YOU said the 2 hander (from MC) was NOT, repeat, NOT a dps upgrade, and that you ONLY wanted it for tanking, in the group game.

Please don't try to twist and misrepresent things, to try to make things look different, or yourself look better. If you're going to post, at least BE HONEST in your posts. If needed, I can pull it from logs, and get your exact wording, if you like.

Abslolutely wrong.

I said I did not KNOW if it was an upgrade or not and would not till I parsed it. If you would like I will dig through logs when I get home from work and give you my exact words.

BTW, I parsed it and it is not a DPS upgrade, but last night when we were doing SS6 and things went fubar I wound up tanking the last 3 squidheads... Guess what I pulled out the 2hb and used it to stay alive. So it did help the raid force yes, it may have saved a wipe, I might not have survived tanking those last 3 without it.

Being a monk is NOT just about DPS (though that is our primary job), it is about a number of things and the 2hb helps be do my job in raids.