Tunare (E`ci) Public Raiding - & Infinit Guild Forums

If you are going to control certain loot types for class specific reasons to help the raid force, please include agro weapons should be warrior shadow knight, paladin, first only. If no tanks need them bid them off to dps. Example 1HS with stun would be better used by a tank then a ranger irregardless of dps. Agro is Agro.

On the flip side warriors etc should not be bidding on the best dps swords if a ranger etc can use them.

If you are asking the warriors to wait on bows, then it should be the same way for agro weapons and rangers bidding on them.

I would like to see our dps have the best dps, our tanks have the best AC, etc. etc. If our goal is to work it out that way I should see no complaints.

DL

darklion wrote:If you are going to control certain loot types for class specific reasons to help the raid force, please include agro weapons should be warrior shadow knight, paladin, first only. If no tanks need them bid them off to dps. Example 1HS with stun would be better used by a tank then a ranger irregardless of dps. Agro is Agro.

On the flip side warriors etc should not be bidding on the best dps swords if a ranger etc can use them.

If you are asking the warriors to wait on bows, then it should be the same way for agro weapons and rangers bidding on them.

I would like to see our dps have the best dps, our tanks have the best AC, etc. etc. If our goal is to work it out that way I should see no complaints.

DL

Im not getting enough preferential treatment please narrow what everyone else can bid on even further. Are you serious?

the only "agro" weapons are weapons with procs thats primary purpose is to generate agro ie force of anger which exist exclusively, I believe, on warrior only weapons
a stun procs primary purpose is to stun and interrupt spells, however it does have "latent" effect of generating agro, perhaps you should petition the devs to ask that you gain access to all wizards spells because while their primary purpose is dps the latent effect is generating agro

Prav you dont know me at all how i play my toon or how i bid i dont want any free ride ect.I responded here because so many others do or have complained bugged leadership during bidding or just stupidly bid on junk they didnt need it has caused an issue. Work hard earn your way and win i thought that was what public was always about. I also dont do drama thats why i very seldom post here. I am against limiting raiders or managing how they can bid on items let the mistakes sort themselves out period If i wanted a free ride i would just join dili ect ect ect where they gear up the tanks first. Those who know me will always understand.

DL

darklion wrote:If you are going to control certain loot types for class specific reasons to help the raid force, please include agro weapons should be warrior shadow knight, paladin, first only. If no tanks need them bid them off to dps.

darklion wrote: I am against limiting raiders or managing how they can bid on items let the mistakes sort themselves out period

Thanks for contradicting yourself

I still rest my case with something along the lines of what I came up with. I do realize by the time the drama that is gravitated towards this issue dies down, this will all be very trivial. BUT... in the extent that whatever classes feel they need this item and it is open to only them, how would it not be fair to do at least a bid of 21 minimum where it would lock them out from loot for the night? We are giving them the benefit of the doubt to get them certain loots first if they want it for a fairly good price. Why not give the rest of the raid the benefit of the doubt to help their odds at other gear that would be greatly beneficial to them as well aside from these items?

I am simply trying to help with solutions. Before pravus points it out though... im going to contradict myself in saying I could really care less what rules are implemented whether they effect me or not. I have fun raiding, and would continue to have fun raiding even if I was in bronze armor. I know it shows in certain events because I die alot (awiz channel will tell you its moreso operator error though) but who cares, its a game and meant to be fun.

I do give my gratitude toward leaders, I certainly dont know how you all deal with everything. I manage 80 or so employees during the work week, and trust me.. the last thing I would want to do is log on to a hobby meant to be fun, and have it morphed into yet another job managing 80+ people (No offense to anyone on the raid force). The stress load needs to be lessened somehow and I realize that is why these rules are coming about. Hats off to you all for stepping up and doing something, and laying the law down. Just please try to be open to the base players suggestions and ideas. The more everyone is included in obstacles, and how to deal with them, the closer knit they will become.

Hughjeee

Ever since I have raided public the warriors have complained about the rangers bidding up on or winning aggro type weapons. Take the T4 axe. So far as I know 2 have dropped khurg has one. One of our rangers has the other one. The last one I saw bid off had the leadership saying GREAT TANK WEAPON!!! It has a stun that is aggro and if one of our wars doesnt have the war weapon from that tier then they should get it. The same with knights if it is knight useable. Lets see who bids on the next one.

This is exactly why placing favoritism on who should get what item first is the problem. We can nit pick this to death and go on and on at the contradictions to it all. Some may have issues with it and call their importances priority etc.

This is just one example of the debate that we are having here. Why bring this on?

Stick with the original rules, they may not be perfect but it works. The simplicity of the old rules was the beauty of it. If you must change them you should be fair to all.

Please change the title of this thread to can of worms, thank you.

DL

I have never minded anyone disagreeing with me, as long as they do it respectfully.
I don't mind people disagreeing with each other, as long as they do it respectfully.
When thing start degrading, I will lock down the posts.

I have stated that this rule has been forthcoming for a year - it's been sitting on simmer, well for over a year to be honest. This was something I actually discussed with a previous raid leader also who was in favor of something, it was me (moi) who sat on it for this long - hammering and delaying how it would be implemented because no matter what, someone would be unhappy and typically take that out on me. So yes I might have gone back and referenced events for over the last year - and mixed them up in specifics, I'm using "intents".

Again - we tried to use tells to make people aware of who was bidding but that was not working either. The drama here is nothing compared to what was received by using tells, but the bottom line again - the most common response - was two-fold 1) you don't have a rule and 2) it helps my group game. There was a lot of avenues explored 1) having a list developed for tanks - and then awarding shield based on that order 2) using a class claim 101 rule that we had before 3) blocking classes from bidding on said items till it was rot status on any tier 4) having class leaders determine who would get next item - awarding it for X amount of dkp . I've been poking holes and looking at rules that would create the least drama of all the other rules going forward. Had I implemented a rule at 21 or 51 - we would still see complaints about how you are forcing me to spend X amount of dkp to get that.

The current process was not working using tells, so I created a rule. Some people see 'shiny" - its a raid item and I'm in group gear - it's an upgrade! We will all get our shiny items. I have stated that we will review the rule over the next few weeks to see what changes we need to make and how.

Just be civil to each other.

One of the problems with sending tells is it is being done behind the scenes. The people receiving tells assume that they are being picked on. I know I for one felt that way.

My personal thought on the matter is still "Bid like you want it".

Eagles wrote:One of the problems with sending tells is it is being done behind the scenes. The people receiving tells assume that they are being picked on. I know I for one felt that way.

My personal thought on the matter is still "Bid like you want it".

Love you!!! you are not being "picked" on and that was never the intent.

"bid like you want it" , I rest my case - we have come full circle - your point of dropping out is not the same as someone else, theirs might be higher or lower depending. So we force people to pay more because they have not met someone's drop out point..

"bid like you want it" , I rest my case - we have come full circle - your point of dropping out is not the same as someone else, theirs might be higher or lower depending. So we force people to pay more because they have not met someone's drop out point..

You cant bid like you want it when you are being told you cant bid on something.
I have been told if you do bid on something you then get blasted in tells.

I know I have spent alot of DKP just to get items I want, I have also caused others to spend more... but its only because I wanted something or they wanted it as bad as me...

Why are we screwing with a rule that has worked for so long anyways..... you might say "it does not work anymore" but have we not beat HoThule faster then they put out the next expansion?...

Do we have to be first in order to beat it?

Huge wrote:Why are we screwing with a rule that has worked for so long anyways..... you might say "it does not work anymore" but have we not beat HoThule faster then they put out the next expansion?...

Do we have to be first in order to beat it?

If memory serves this is only the second expansion we beat when it was current.

SoD being the other one.

Now whether that is becuase it those two were considered Easy expansions is up to others decide.

Xslia wote
I've been poking holes and looking at rules that would create the least drama of all the other rules going forward. Had I implemented a rule at 21 or 51 - we would still see complaints about how you are forcing me to spend X amount of dkp to get that.

We are not forcing them to spend the DKP. We are saying if the item is bid at less then 21 then its open to anyone. Once the bid goes over 20 then it can only be won by rangers, if the item was a bow. IMO this seems like a good compromise for an imperfect game. The current rule gives out FREE LOOT.

Last comment .....

DKP – we are a pure DKP system. You earn DKP for raids, and you spend your dkp building your character as you see best. We might try to educate some into “smart” buying for your class, but ultimately the end decision is yours to make.

Jeldar
Proud Member of Public Raid Force

Jeldar wrote:

Xslia wote
I've been poking holes and looking at rules that would create the least drama of all the other rules going forward. Had I implemented a rule at 21 or 51 - we would still see complaints about how you are forcing me to spend X amount of dkp to get that.

We are not forcing them to spend the DKP. We are saying if the item is bid at less then 21 then its open to anyone. Once the bid goes over 20 then it can only be won by rangers, if the item was a bow. IMO this seems like a good compromise for an imperfect game. The current rule gives out FREE LOOT.

Last comment .....

DKP – we are a pure DKP system. You earn DKP for raids, and you spend your dkp building your character as you see best. We might try to educate some into “smart” buying for your class, but ultimately the end decision is yours to make.

Jeldar
Proud Member of Public Raid Force

Full post:
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=9468

Xslia wrote:Public is a DKP system (dragon kill points).

.......

Price Fixing & misc Info

Zetarich wrote: I decided not to put this under another post - because I want to be absolutely sure its read by all.
If ANYONE other than the RL takes a hand in your bidding - please - take a screen shot - send it to me as a PM.
I promise to follow up - and the first time warn the offender(s).
The second time I will subtract 100 DKP.
The third time I will delete their account.
This is just plain BULLSHIT - its NOT what we are about.
Zeta

.......

Public has an open DKP bid system, however this does not mean a raid leader or class leader is not prevented from asking you why you are are bidding on something if it's not making sense (ie, non-tanking classes bidding on shields, or non-rangers bidding on bows, where it makes game sense to question why someone is raising a bid or bidding on something). .........


In the end, when the bidding settles, no one should be dictating bid amounts.

There is a Sticky post in the Open forum that is titled "E`ci-Tunare Public Raiders – who are we?" I believe that is where Jeldar got his quote from. ( post viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9384 )

From the amount of posts and opinions this loot rule change has created, it seems to me that there is a concern that we are losing a part of what has made Public, Public.

Who are we?

Are we now raiders that can no longer be trusted to determine what is best for our own character? Our end decision no longer belongs to us? And if we chose to stand up for what we believe by bidding, because we know how to play our class, we risk judgement from the Mighty Hammer of NoLootForYOU sentenced to sit out more??!!!

The saddest part regarding this whole loot rule change is that the majority that have expressed their opinion really don't have an issue with prioritizing loot to specific classes. The REAL issue is that this rule not only takes away our decision to spend the dkp we earned, it forces us to watch those items go for pennies on the dollar. We watch and wonder how much of an upgrade that 1 dkp item was for them knowing we would have been more than willing to make that item the only item we win that night.

I personally don't have issues with making items class specific, but only after the bid goes above 21 dkp. At least that way, you have given us a choice to truly decide if we want to spend our dkp as we see best.

E`ci-Tunare Public Raiders – who are we?

Postby Xslia » Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:38 pm
Public raiders mission started out on the E`ci Server with the goal of allowing anyone who met the requirements (level/flags) a chance to raid and experience the game on a different level, without regards to guild tag/affiliation. This mission has not changed in principal. If you meet the requirements set forth when raid is called, you can join the raid channel, regardless of guild tag.

Infinit – members in this guild support and sponsor the public raids. These members make up the core of the raid force, sponsor the website and maintain the dkp recording. Infinit members can and will be asked to sit out events to give other opportunities.

DKP – we are a pure DKP system. You earn DKP for raids, and you spend your dkp building your character as you see best. We might try to educate some into “smart” buying for your class, but ultimately the end decision is yours to make.

Who am I? Still a Proud member of Public

Dasmagi

Public has changed from the starting days (or at least the days I started with it). This is partially due to its success. Having talked to Xslia I know that she would LIKE to have it open for everyone to raid rather then waiting lists, but sadly we can not if we want to progress as fast.

A lot of people say 21 points they would not mind the prefernce.... For me honestly I'd like it to be 101 (the old class buy). I would prefer NOT to have one at all, but if you are going to completely cut someone out of bidding it ought to be for enough DKP you are going to think about it (IMHO). If an item is so critical to your class that you need to shut other people out of the item than you ought to be willing to spend something for it.