Tunare (E`ci) Public Raiding - & Infinit Guild Forums

ranger chat, exchange ideas etc

I have been doing a bit of parsing recently, and reading through several forums from many different sources, trying to separate truths from unproven misinformation. I've made some general assumptions through this analysis, based on experience of mine and others; the majority of my examples are theoretical, so take it for what it's worth. The goal is to put the values of statisical modifiers on ranger defense in perspective.

Let me know if you feel anything has been misrepresented, or if anything should be added or taken in to consideration.

*****

AC
These are all parses I ran with my PoR Beta copy, with full defensive AA(including DoDh).
All parses from Test 70, unbuffed, no shield, After the adjustment to ranger mitigation
All long parses - Minimum of 10k hits

Test Seventy's damage formula
(DB(100-Shielding%) + n=(1,2,..20)*DI
(171(100-0%) + n=(1,2,..20)*33.6)

The best way to measure the effectiveness of mitigation by AC is to compare the average hit(or average DI) and the percentage of hits that come from the upper end of the damage distribution at different levels of AC.

AC - Avg Hit/Avg DI - % DI17-DI20

*All hits adjusted to reflect 0% shielding

1663 AC - 439.4/7.97 - 14.2%
1740 AC - 437.9/7.90 - 12.1%
1788 AC - 434.3/7.82 - 11.7%
1888 AC - 429.6/7.68 - 11.3%
1986 AC - 426.6/7.59 - 11.3%
2096 AC - 423.5/7.50 - 11.3%
2190 AC - 421.7/7.45 - 10.6%

2190 was my maximum unbuffed AC, there is a continual decline in mitigation towards a point of minimal returns, but that point is not quite reached. There is also a continual decline in percent of high damage hits(DI17-DI20), which directly results in less spike damage, meaning you are less likely to drop too fast for heals.

Over time, assuming you are hit 100 times over 3 minutes:
(0%shielding, assume 0 avoidance)
at 1663 AC
(100hits*439.4 average hit) = 43,940 damage = 244.11 dps
at 2190 AC
(100 hits*421.7 average hit) = 42,170 damage = 234.28 dps


The softcap for rangers is well below this point - sources I rely on suggest it is around 1200-1400 ac(supported by parsing), and it bears little relevance on the mitigation performance of armor class upgrades as raid-geared rangers. I ran several shorter parses at 1450-1600 AC (eventually I died since I had removed too much of my HP by taking off gear); The average DI consistently increased, but not sharply enough to suggest any soft cap above 1500 AC. After the soft cap, mitigation from AC is based only against your opponent's attack level. As your opponent's attack level increases, the benefits you receive from AC(or penalty from lack thereof) increases. For example, a decline in returns may be noticed at 2200 AC when fighting Wall of Slaughter trash mobs, but against more challenging content, as in Theater of Blood trash 2500 AC may be required to notice proportianate mitigation levels (generally speaking).

It is much harder to get accurate parses from live content, without letting a mob beat on you for hours while running a CH cycle on yourself(Test Seventy procs a heal on you, allowing for long and even parses). I am unsure how Test Seventy's attack level fits in to the scale of content we face.

I have a decent amount of current parses at 2635 AC buffed from CoA and the Nest. I generally see an average DI of 6.5-7. Again each mob has a different attack level, and I have much higher AC at this point, so this isn't exactly a great comparison to Test Seventy, but can serve as a live example.

Nest Drakes damage formula
(264*(1-shielding) n=(1,2,..20)*51.3
with 16% shielding I had 624.3 as the average hit(based on 3000+ hits), or DI=6.9

******

Avoidance - 10 avoidance=1% greater chance of a miss (not a dodge, parry, or riposte - only a miss)
The information in the table above is not affected by avoidance, however by looking at this particular mob's average hit, you can infer a value of avoidance over time in this case.

With 2190 AC and 0 avoidance, If you are hit 100 times over 3 minutes, you will take : (0%shielding)
(100hits * 421.7 average hit) = 42,170 damage = 234.28 dps.
With 2190 AC and 100 avoidance, over the same 3 minute period, you would be hit 10% less overall, or 90 times.
(90hits * 421.7 average hit) = 37,953 damage = 210.85 dps

Avoidance also helps to decrease the amount of spike damage you would take.

******

Defensive skills - Dodge, Parry, Riposte
Based on very long parses with and without the modifiers, the rates of success are independent of armor class, avoidance, etc. The success rates are only affected by Improved Dodge III/Improved Parry III(and possibly agility, all parsing was performed with 365 agility)

Without ID3 & IP3
Parry=5.79%
Dodge-4.08%
Riposte=4.06%

With ID3 & IP3
Parry=7.11%
Dodge-5.29%

IP3=1.32% less hits
ID3= 1.21% less hits

IP3=7.11/5.79 = 22.80% increase
ID3=5.29/4.08 = 29.65% increase

Lucy has Improved Parry 3 at a 24% increase in parry rate, and Improved Dodge at a 30% increase in dodge rate. Although Improved Parry 3 has a lower % increase than Improved Dodge 3, rangers have a significantly higher parry cap, which apparently makes parry slightly more beneficial than the dodge modifier overall.

The modifiers do work together, having both defensive modifiers would equate to 2.53% less hits overall. Defensive skills are calculated separately from avoidance/misses, but the end result is the same. Having both modifiers would have the equivalent effect of roughly 25 avoidance.

(0%shielding, assume 0 avoidance)
With 2190 AC , without ID3 & IP3, If you are hit 100 times over 3 minutes, you will take :
(100hits * 421.7 average hit) = 42,170 damage = 234.28 dps.
With 2190 AC and without ID3 & IP3, over the same 3 minute period, you would be hit 2.64% less overall, or 97.36(theoretically) times.
(97.47hits * 421.7 average hit) = 41,103 damage = 228.35 dps

******

Shielding - percentage of damage removed from mob's damage bonus.
The value of shielding on Test Seventy, which seems to have a similar damage formula to an MPG trash mob: With a damage bonus of 171, every 1% shielding will shave 1.71 damage off each attack. In my parses I had 9% shielding, which equates to 16 less damage per hit. With full 35% shielding, I would take 60 damage less per hit. From these parses, 10% shielding gives roughly the same benefit in mitigation as you would see in increasing your AC from 1663 to 2190. In comparison, CoA trash mobs and Drakes from The Nest have roughly a 250 DB(depending on mob type), meaning each 1% shielding shaves roughly 2.5 damage per hit.

Over time again 100 hits in 3 minutes
(assume 0 avoidance)
at 2190 AC and 0% shielding
(100hits * 421.7 average hit) = 42,170 damage = 234.28 dps
at 2190 AC and 10% shielding
(100hits * 404.2 average hit) = 40,420 damage = 224.56 dps
at 2190 AC and 35% shielding
(100hits * 361.4 average hit) = 36,140 damage = 200.78 dps

Shielding is still far better suited in the hands of a plate tank for our raid force. The largest benefit comes in tanking boss mobs, which typically have a significant Damage Bonus. Rangers most likely will not be depended on to tank these mobs(without weaponshield), until it is deemed trivial.

In our tanking role, which I would personally define as using taunt and snap agro to pick up loose or uncontrolled mobs long enough for a mez or plate tank to take over, shielding still has a considerable value in our mitigation.

******

Ranger with 2190 unbuffed AC
0%shielding 0 avoidance, no ID, no IP
(100hits * 421.7 average hit) = 42,170 damage = 234.28 dps.

Ranger with 2190 unbuffed AC, 100 avoidance, 35% shielding, ID3 & IP3
Over 3 minutes(assuming 100 hits unmodified)
(87.47hits(theoretical)) * 361.4 average hit) = 31,612 damage = 175.62 dps

******

Again, the damage intake varies greatly from opponent to opponent. This is just 1 case hopefully to show some proportions of value. As tougher mobs are encountered, with different attack ratings, or different damage formulas the proportions will vary.

Proc rate Formula
Mainhand:
2 * (100 + procratemod + worn combat effects + WA modifier)/100

I have checked this formula with different levels of Weapon Affinity, and Combat Effects, all of my parses followed this formula reasonably closely.

*Procratemod can be found on Lucy under the item description. The base and most common value is 0. As far as I have found, all damage augments have a procratemod of 0.


WA modifier = WA level * 10 (WA1=10, WA5=50)

WA5 and 0 CE
2 * (100 + 0 + 0 + 50) / 100 = 3 PPM

WA5 and 100 CE
2 * (100 + 0 + 100 + 50) / 100 = 5 PPM

****

200dd/60 (3.33 dps/ppm) Emblem of the Violet Order (-200 FR)
175dd/60 (2.92 dps/ppm) Frozen Sky Stone (-200 CR)
125lt/60 (2.08 dps/ppm) Deepsky Stone (-150 MR)

*Proc rate halved in off-hand*

****

DPS comparisons of Combat Effects

WA5 + 0 CE = 3ppm
Primary - Epic w/ 2 deepsky stone = 12.48 dps
Offhand - Frozen Sky Stone = 4.38 dps
Total = 16.86 dps

WA5 + 100 CE = 5ppm
Primary - Epic w/ 2 deepsky stone = 20.80 dps
Offhand - Frozen Sky Stone = 7.30 dps
Total = 28.10 dps

DPS difference between 100 CE and 0 CE
28.10 - 16.86 = 11.24 dps

*Edit - I realized I didn't include critical proc damage. I believe with full AA, the spell critical rate for rangers is 13-14%, so in each case DD proc augment damage can be multiplied by 1.13 to factor this in. I also forgot to include the increased dps from additional Call of Lightning procs and criticals. I need to double check the proc rate of the spell(I assume it is a base of 3ppm).

****

Damage Augments

Estimates based on full ranger offensive AA through DoD Hand innate mainhand triple attack for 1H weapons, 150 Accuracy: Posted by Ladas

Damage shown in chart is based on +1 dmg
For elemental damage, assume half the damage
ex. Lightning Prism of Swordplay (+2 dmg, +1 magic dmg) - multiply value by 2.5


Delay - Main - Offhand
10 - 11.07 - 9.16
11 - 10.06 - 8.33
12 - 9.23 - 7.64
13 - 8.52 - 7.05
14 - 7.91 - 6.55
15 - 7.38 - 6.11
16 - 6.92 - 5.73
17 - 6.51 - 5.39
18 - 6.15 - 5.09
19 - 5.83 - 4.82
20 - 5.54 - 4.58
21 - 5.27 - 4.36
22 - 5.03 - 4.17
23 - 4.81 - 3.98
24 - 4.61 - 3.82
25 - 4.43 - 3.67
26 - 4.26 - 3.52
27 - 4.10 - 3.39
28 - 3.95 - 3.27
29 - 3.82 - 3.16
30 - 3.69 - 3.05
31 - 3.57 - 2.96
32 - 3.46 - 2.86

This table is posted on EQOutriders, the numbers look reasonable to me. I assume he based it on average hits per minute, average DI, and the damage formula:

Int(6.1*weapondmg) + db
For unaugmented Epic 2.0
n=((1,2,..20)/20) * (6.1*42) + 15

****

DPS comparisons based on Lightning Prism of Swordplay in main or offhand

0 Combat Effects
Lightning Prism of Swordplay in:
Epic Mainhand - 11.53 dps (with LPoS and Deepsky Stone) = 17.77dps
Notched Blade of Bloodletting Offhand (with Deepsky Stone) = 3.12dps
Total= 20.89dps

Epic Mainhand - 12.48 dps (with Deepsky Stonex2)
Notched Blade of Bloodletting Offhand (with LPoS)- 9.55dps
Total = 22.03dps


100 Combat Effects
Lightning Prism of Swordplay in:
Epic Mainhand - 11.53 dps (with LPoS and Deepsky Stone) = 21.93dps
Notched Blade of Bloodletting Offhand (with Deepsky Stone) = 5.2dps
Total= 27.13dps

Epic Mainhand - 20.08 dps (with Deepsky Stonex2)
Notched Blade of Bloodletting Offhand (with LPoS)- 9.55
Total = 29.63dps

Lightning Prism of Swordplay marginally better in offhand at offhand delay of 24
(Benefit increases as offhand weapon delay lowers)

****

Compared to the effects of Accuracy - 150 Accuracy ~ 10% increased chance to hit
Cleave 5/Ferocity 5, Attack ~ 2200, Raid Buffed - 100% haste, Excluding Proc/Nuke damage
(No short term buffs(auspice, berserker buff, shaman epic), No damage modifying buffs(Lion's Strength, Spirit of Might, Champion)

15 Accuracy = 1 % increase in chance to hit

Damage parses vary depending on target - general example provided.

0 Accuracy - % to hit = 65%
150 Accuracy - % to hit = 75%
Increase in melee attack damage = 15.4%
Based on Epic/Nbob combo: 0 Accuracy - dps = 370 dps
150 Accuracy - dps = 427 dps

DPS difference between 150 Accuracy and 0 Accuracy
427 - 370 = 57 dps

This is a very rough example of Accuracy, but you can see where it stacks up against Combat Effects

Nice work, Gringo.

Gringo,

Mind me asking yoru sample size on the damage at each ac level?

Just seemed odd that you had a 200 ac range where it was 11.3, follwoed by a 100 ac jump that dropped it to 10.6. Looks like a small sample size but then having said that it will probalby turn out I was wrong

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It turns out there is a rounding issue with haste such that just looking at the ratio of a weapon doesn't really tell you which will do more DPS, even ignoring procs and such.

So until it is fixed, here's a good guide for which weapon will do more damage at different levels of haste. As one example, you can see that the Darkglint Blade gets no benefit at all from a 5% or 8% overhaste clicky, because it ends up rounding to the same number at 100% and 105% and 108%. You can also see that some weapons, which might be very close at 100% can diverge at 105% (compare Runic Bloodstained Maul and Dragonkiller). You can even get weird effects, like the Runic Bloodstained Maul will surpass the Warsorrow at some levels of overhaste, and th Arcekor and Sekv will perform very differently depending on the level of overhaste.

100% haste
3.88 Arcekor, the Instigator
3.84 Sekv, Blade of Glacial Fury
3.71 Cudgel of Unified Vision
3.52 Aurora, Heartwood Blade (2.5)
3.36 Aurora, Heartwood Blade
3.26 Warsorrow
3.24 Runic Bloodstained Maul
3.15 Dragonkiller
3.15 Hammer of Shadows
3.12 Hammer of Rancorous Thoughts
3.11 Twinfang
3.04 Spiked Cudgel of Rage
3.00 Swiftcleave, the Flesh Carver
3.00 Notched Blade of Bloodletting
2.96 Vergalid's Blood Mace of Dismemberment
2.94 Shademaul
2.93 Allins Mace
2.82 Mace of Tortured Nightmares
2.76 Blade of Natural Turmoil
2.65 Relentless Guardian's Staff
2.64 Thunderclap
2.56 Death's Head Mace
2.47 Darkglint Blade


105% Haste
4.10 Sekv, Blade of Glacial Fury
3.98 Cudgel of Unified Vision
3.88 Arcekor, the Instigator
3.75 Aurora, Heartwood Blade (2.5)
3.58 Aurora, Heartwood Blade
3.47 Runic Bloodstained Maul
3.44 Warsorrow
3.34 Twinfang
3.25 Swiftcleave, the Flesh Carver
3.24 Spiked Cudgel of Rage
3.20 Notched Blade of Bloodletting
3.16 Vergalid's Blood Mace of Dismemberment
3.15 Shademaul
3.15 Dragonkiller
3.15 Hammer of Shadows
3.12 Hammer of Rancorous Thoughts
3.02 Mace of Tortured Nightmares
2.93 Allins Mace
2.82 Thunderclap
2.76 Blade of Natural Turmoil
2.65 Relentless Guardian's Staff
2.56 Death's Head Mace
2.47 Darkglint Blade

108% Haste
4.12 Arcekor, the Instigator
4.10 Sekv, Blade of Glacial Fury
3.98 Cudgel of Unified Vision
3.75 Aurora, Heartwood Blade (2.5)
3.58 Aurora, Heartwood Blade
3.47 Runic Bloodstained Maul
3.44 Warsorrow
3.40 Dragonkiller
3.34 Twinfang
3.25 Swiftcleave, the Flesh Carver
3.24 Spiked Cudgel of Rage
3.20 Notched Blade of Bloodletting
3.16 Vergalid's Blood Mace of Dismemberment
3.15 Shademaul
3.15 Hammer of Shadows
3.15 Allins Mace
3.12 Hammer of Rancorous Thoughts
3.02 Mace of Tortured Nightmares
2.86 Relentless Guardian's Staff
2.82 Thunderclap
2.76 Blade of Natural Turmoil
2.56 Soulskive
2.56 Demerix the Painsipper
2.56 Death's Head Mace
2.56 Chaotic Black Scimitar
2.47 Darkglint Blade

125% haste
4.39 Arcekor, the Instigator
4.39 Sekv, Blade of Glacial Fury
4.28 Cudgel of Unified Vision
4.02 Aurora, Heartwood Blade (2.5)
3.84 Aurora, Heartwood Blade
3.74 Runic Bloodstained Maul
3.68 Dragonkiller
3.63 Warsorrow
3.59 Twinfang
3.55 Swiftcleave, the Flesh Carver
3.47 Spiked Cudgel of Rage
3.43 Notched Blade of Bloodletting
3.41 Hammer of Shadows
3.41 Allins Mace
3.40 Shademaul
3.38 Vergalid's Blood Mace of Dismemberment
3.33 Hammer of Rancorous Thoughts
3.25 Mace of Tortured Nightmares
3.09 Relentless Guardian's Staff
3.02 Thunderclap
2.99 Blade of Natural Turmoil
2.77 Soulskive
2.77 Chaotic Black Scimitar
2.74 Death's Head Mace
2.73 Demerix the Painsipper
2.68 Hardened Bone Spike
2.65 Darkglint Blade

You can read about this in more detail at:

http://eqoutrider.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... sc&start=0

and

http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/boa ... .id=353305

Hey, there was a note posted that for the RBM, which I focused on in my example, the original spreadsheet had a typo. So it's not quite as good as it looks in those sheets. You can use the Spiked Cudgel of Rage instead, if you are trying to estimate the RBM.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Everquest-Account-7 ... dZViewItem

Everquest Account 75 Woodelf 2.0 Epic Ranger 1923 AA's
price: US $1,600.00

Oh, very nice! I should buy him. I mean...

My Secondary WEAPON is Equal to my EPIC 2.0 Even..You will not see a BADER RANGER then this one He is ( TOP NOTCH )***#1 ON HIS SERVER*** ( Has every one of the RK ll SPELLS..Tons of Clickies ( ACCURACY/ATTACK is MAXED CRAZY DPS ).. He looks Cool

He even has 3 Vet AAs!
The best thing, though... is that fucking MR is his lowest resist, too.



Edit: not only that, but look at what else he's sold! THIS AUCTION IS FOR 4 SECRETS I HAVE
One does wonder how he's sold the same thing multiple times, and yet he's "never shared this SECRET with no one..." Actually, come to think of it - maybe his grammar there is spot-on. Oh, that clever, clever Ranger.r

Only a 2.0?

Only rank 2 spells?

Who wants a gimp like that?

Besides its a ranger ROFL