Hren's Guide to Mitigation

Guides & other useful Information
Hrendra
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Hren's Guide to Mitigation

Post by Hrendra »

Recently I was involved in a discussion with some people about Shielding. I also mentioned it on a thread in this forum long ago, when I said "You can't and shouldn't have to call "class" on everything--at some point, common sense has to step in. That's the case with shielding augs. If you need me to describe what shielding does, I can, but I'm not in the mood atm because it'd be a long post..." Well, guess what, I had time. :) Thus, I thought I'd take the opportunity to explain it, because there are many people who don't seem to understand exactly how mob damage output works. Therefore, this is a lengthy teaching post. It will demonstrate how damage values are figured, how AC, Shielding, and HP work towards a tank's effectiveness, and why non-tanks bidding on shielding augments are shortsighted.

I've gathered information regarding this for quite awhile, because I hoard information like cigarettes in jail. The Steel Warrior site has the best collection of information; SK.org also has some significant studies. If you'd like to look them up, you can easily use Google.

Btw, you can skip the math if it's too boring; parts II and III should be comprehensive.

I. THE EQUATIONS

Every mob has two damage values that are used to calculate how much they hit you for on a hit. These two values are: Damage Bonus (DB) and Damage Interval (DI). Every mob has these two values.

When the mob lands a hit on you, a number is generated from 1-20 (random d20). This number is multiplied times the DI, the result of which is added to the DB. This can be expressed mathematically as:

H = DB *(1.00-S) + (N*DI)

S represents the amount of shielding you have, up to a maximum/cap of 35% shielding. This is where a lot of confusion comes in, because people have an improper understanding of the value of shielding.

As the equation shows, shielding only modifies the DB portion of damage. It shaves off a fixed % of the bonus damage before it gets added to the DI result.

Removing shielding for a second for clarity, there are thus 20 discrete values for damage that may result, ranging from:

Minimum Damage = DB + 1*DI
Maximum Damage = DB + 20*DI

N, which is the random 1-20 number, is affected by your AC and class mitigation.
You can determine all of these numbers simply by watching your logs and damage intake. Let the mob hit you, and collect data, and you can find a range of hits, and extrapolate from there using the formula above.

For warriors, the formula is slightly different. With zero shielding:

Warrior innate mitigation = DB + 0.95*(1-20)*DI
Warrior defensive discipline = DB + 0.5*(1-20)*DI

Examples of how the formula works:

Mob_A: DB=50, DI=100. Shielding = 0
For non-warriors, minimum hit is 50 * (1.00) + (1*100), or 150.
Hit values are 150, 250, 350, 450, 550, 650, 750. . .and maximum is 2050 for non-warriors.
For warriors, minimum hit is 50 * (.95) + (1*100), or 145.
Hit values are 145, 240, 335, 430, 525, 620, 715. . .and maximum is 1950 for wars.
Under defensive, minimum hit is 100 and maximum is 1050.

Here, there's a big difference between the maximum hit under Defensive and without it. Further the range of possible hits (maximum hit-minimum hit) when not under Defensive is quite high making healing needs a bit unpredictable.

Mob_B - DB=1800, DI=10, Shielding = 0
Minimum hit is 1810 and maximum is 2000 for non-wars
Minimum hit is 1809 and maximum is 1990 for wars
Under Defensive, minimum hit is 1805 and maximum is 1900

There is very little difference between the maximum hit under Defensive and without it. Further the range of possible hits (maximum hit-minimum hit) is nearly identical with or without Defensive.

Thus, if a is mob hitting for a wide range of values, the chances are that it's DI is high and you will benefit from using Defensive. If two values are pretty close and it's consistently hitting for very similar values, the DB is doing most of the damage and DI is likely fairly low - use Evasive.

Now, DB is typically high on, you guessed it, boss mobs. This is where shielding comes in. Let's look at our two examples again, as warriors.

Mob_A: DB=50, DI=100. Shielding = 20
Minimum hit is 135 and maximum hit is 1940. Thus, on this low DB mob, we see a reduction of 10 hp per hit.

Mob_B - DB=1800, DI=10, Shielding = 20
Minimum hit is 1449 and maximum is 1630. On this high DB mob, we see a reduction of 260 per hit.

A high AC reduces the N value. We refer to this N*DI value as DI1 (min), DI2, DI3, up to DI20 (max). Thus, a 2500 AC tank might fall into the DI3 range a lot, or the DI4 range a lot.

For the sake of comparison, an average Tacvi named has a DB = 500 and DI = 250. This means its range is from DI1 of 750 to DI20 of 5500 for any class, or 738-5250 for warriors.


II. WHAT IS MOST IMPORTANT?

Shielding does not have a singular universal value. Some mobs have more of their damage coming from DB and some have more coming from DI. On a mob with DB 1 and DI 400 (which doesn't seem to exist; this is only illustrative) shielding will do absolutely nothing. On a mob with DB 1,000 and DI 10, shielding is invaluable. In general, your meanest mobs have more damage coming from DB, because this results in the minimum hit being higher. This means that in the roughest situations--such as tanking boss mobs--shielding is going to do the most good.

I parsed myself when I tanked Queen Pyrilonis, and found I was mitigating her into DI4-5 frequently. That's very good. A tank with lesser AC, say 2100, might mitigate into the DI8-9 range a lot. That's arbitrary, but it is a healthy example of the difference in damage intake, and why a high AC is arguably more important than having a lot of hit points.

Most people erroneously use hp as the primary judge of tank viability. While to a point, it's sensible because at the high end, high AC and high hp go hand-in-hand on items, for mid-level tanks, there's a wide range of itemization. An MPG group leader asking your warrior twink what his HP are, without asking for his AC, is an idiot.

What people sometimes fail to realize is that AC makes your HP more effective. As an example, if a mob has an average hit on you for 800 (say, a tank that goes all HP in MPG) and you have 10500 hp, you can absorb 14 hits. If the mob has an average hit on you for 400 (a tank that goes all AC in MPG) and you have 9000 hp, you can absorb 23 hits--or tank roughly 70% better.

1000 hp difference means very little if AC and shielding are equivalent between 2 tanks. On a mob with DI = 500 and DB = 250, they will be able to take less than 1 more hit on average (median is 2994, mean varies with attack but basically a war would need 2000+ hp difference to take even one more HIT).

That being said, true effectiveness is a balance of both--mitigating tremendous amounts of damage, but having enough hp to withstand high DI damage spikes (inevitable) and damage that does not come from mitigation, namely procs and AE's. If you have really nice AC but lack the hp to handle, say, General Reparm's 3kdd proc, you better hope your wizards have a lot of peridots. Indeed, on our own raids, when do we see a lot of tank deaths? When AEs hit.

One rounding is generally not a concern for tanks, especially with discs (defensive for warriors, mini-defensive for knights). What kills tanks is streaks of bad rounds and auxiliary damage. We tank mobs that hit upwards of 5k--for example, King Gelidran--and look how rarely one rounding occurs, almost never when heals are in motion. Usually, it happens on tank switches, or when heals aren't in swing.

AC and shielding combine to be much more effective at preventing spikes and reducing the amount of healing necessary. A high shielding/AC tank with 13.2k hp only has to be hit for 66% of KG's max damage in a round to be one-rounded, but because of his mitigation, he doesn't. Someone with lower AC, but 15k hitpoints, would be taking double, or possibly triple the amount of damage spikes--giving a much, much higher risk of death and needing much higher replenishment resources.

The value of AC is that it works independently of a healer; as opposed to hitpoints, it's not dependent upon constant refreshment in limited, hardcapped amounts to perform its function. Since hitpoints are dependent upon replenishment, they are typically dependent upon another person for their effectiveness (healers)--and frankly, other peoples' decisions are the worst form of mitigation.

Shielding is therefore better and better the more AC/mitigation you have, because proportionately more of the damage you are taking is coming from the DB.

As stated, shielding's worth values greatly. Aneuks in Txevu, for example, at 1000/1 (DB/DI), would reduce the mob's damage by nearly 35%. Who do you want tanking them? Having high ac does almost nothing on those mobs because their hits do not vary in any meaningful way due to their amazingly low DI. Here, you survive primarily due to shielding and hitpoints.

Comparably, GoD yard trash (100/50), hitting me at an average DI5 would mean an average hit of around 350. This would reduce to 315 with max shielding, or decrease damage intake by 10%. Mobs in GoD generally have low DB's though, so that's an extreme example.


III. ON SOFTCAPS

There's often confusion regarding the term "softcap" because it refers to two separate concepts.

(1) There exists a hardcoded cap that is based upon class, and is relatively low. Devs state that a median 65 warrior is above his class softcap; extrapolated, we can surmise that all classes at the high end have reached their hardcoded cap. In the Velious era, there was only this hardcoded cap; that was it. After a certain point, which differed for each class, the benefit of more AC didn't just diminish - it dropped to nothing.

Just before PoP, the system was changed from a hardcoded cap to a soft cap. Now, you get a percentage increase based upon the your amount over that soft cap. Shields increase both your total ac *and* your soft cap, making them more effective than any other item with equal AC. 100 AC on a shield is much more valuable than 100 ac on a breastplate. The benefit increases as the AC on the shield increases - it isn't a static bonus. This is why knights that tank with 2handers are not smart tanks. Because of how the shield affects mitigation, you are better tanking with a Time 1hander and a crappy Basalt Bulwark from Plane of Fire than by using your leet DoN or Anguish 2hander.

Additionally, your mitigation AA's, level, and class also affect the cap and the percentage return over softcap you receive; that is, how much of an increase in survivability does X amount of AC procide your class, and at what point does your AC completely overcome a mob's ATK value?

Classes mitigate differently, and plate tanks--warrior, SK, and paladin--have the highest mitigation, with the largest return over softcap for AC. This means that smaller raises in AC affect the hit distribution positively so that the mob hits for lower values. For example, a tank will notice a difference between 2100 and 2300ac. An int caster won't notice a difference between 1000 and 1700, despite the relatively huge ac increase (700) compared to the tank (200).

(2) This leads to the fact that your mitigation also varies depending on what mob you are facing. For instance, as a knight, go to Rifts and parse yourself at 2k AC. Then, parse yourself on the same mob at 3k AC. The difference is large, with benefits continuing to show as your AC increases.

Now, go to Sol B and parse yourself at 2k and 3k AC. There won't be much difference at all in value distribution, mins/maxes, avg. DI multiplier, etc., because you are so far over the mob's attack that the extra AC doesn't matter.

Because of this variety in mobs, a lot of people refer to being at the 'softcap' for certain zones. It's important to make the distinction between this reference and what I describe in (1) above.

If you're a plate tank, your goal is to stay alive--that means reducing your damage intake. The easiest way to do that is to strap on a shield and attain as much AC and Shielding as you can. If you are a silk-wearing caster, you can view AC like a warrior views mana--no concern whatsoever--and honestly, even as an SK, I never pay attention to mana. It's just something that happens to be on my gear that I can make use of, but is never a criterion for choosing my upgrades. For those in between these extremes, just remember AC benefits plate tanks the most, hands down, and the further away from a plate tank class you are, the less it does for you.


IV. WHAT IT MEANS

The numerical analyses above focused on tanks for a reason: It demonstrated the power of mitigation. Non-tanks do not mitigate to DI3, or DI4. They mitigate hits down with much less frequency, and take a lot more DI20 hits. Because of that, shielding is of very little importance to them, because it is reducing only a small and infrequent portion of their incoming damage. It doesn't save their lives, or increase their survivability, to the same degree that it does that of tanks--and in most cases, it won't affect things at all.

For non-tanks to increase survivability, their best bet is to go for +Avoidance, and +HP. Avoidance makes an attack miss you completely--thus, it's the fastest way to raise durability for classes that can't mitigate. I've never told anyone that Avoidance should be restricted; it shouldn't. Likewise, adding pure HP is important, because if you're constantly being hit for a high DI value, you need to be able to just absorb the hits since you cannot effectively mitigate them to lesser values.

As said above, the primary goal of a tank is to lower the likelihood of his death. High AC does that, and does it pretty well. Shielding also has a dramatic effect on directly lowering incoming DPS. Taking a whole lot of hits for minimum, few maximum hits--particularly in a row--and mitigating those maximum hits down to even lower values via shielding? That's a tank.

What's unfortunate is that people don't seem to understand how much less useful shielding itself is to a class that gets hit for high DI/near max every time. Its value is maximized by people who are taking incoming damage over a long period of time--not a few rounds here or there. There is no argument to be made that can claim that the 15 seconds other classes get hit--and often die--compares at all in relative value to anywhere from 5 to 20 minutes of tanking.

Sony realizes it, and itemizes appropriately. Shielding is much more prevalent on plate and chain gear; avoidance is prevalent on leather and silk gear. Yes, some plate gear has avoidance, and some silk gear has shielding--but silk gear sometimes has Haste, too, and plate gear has mods that are useless to 4 of the 5 classes that can use it.

The greatest limiting factor on progression revolves around the tank/healer dynamic.

The more damage you can absorb, mitigate, and replenish, the greater your chances of surviving, and progressing. The area in which we struggle the most has, traditionally, been that requiring tank depth.

Weaker tanking means more resources necessary to keep them alive, meaning fewer resources to fulfill other roles.
Stronger tanking means less resources necessary to keep them alive, meaning more flexibility, more available content, and the ability to handle more complex events because you can divide and assign your resources more effectively.

This isn't rocket science--look at the trial of Hatred. Compare two people: Hrendra tanking pups in Hatred and needing one cleric in group, or a newcomer tanking pups and requiring 2 clerics in their group. That's not to toot my horn--that's to demonstrate that it's a significant difference in even a basic raid.

A lot of times, we blame healers when a tank dies--there are limits to what they can accomplish. It is NOT always the healer--it's a dynamic. It's interdependency. You could have 20 healers in a raid, and if the tank isn't strong enough, he'll die anyway, especially in important situations like tank switches, when the tank absolutely must be able to survive during the time frame it takes healers to retarget and begin casting.

Not everyone has the time to research as I do, and I understand that. I'm a bit of an obsessive student of the game. However, I'm hoping that this document will enable people to better understand how damage intake works in Everquest, and why tanks--myself included--get up in arms about shielding. It's a wonderful example of how people should use more common sense when bidding/distributing loot, in both raids and xp groups. I encourage everyone to take the steps to learn about the game around them. Your class boards are a wonderful way to start, and Google can provide links to any of them if you have even the most basic search engine skills.
Last edited by Hrendra on Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Xalatan
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Post by Xalatan »

OMG my head hurts.

Good info Hrendra.
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Xslia
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Post by Xslia »

Wow, I'll get back to you in about 6 months on this.. need time to read and digest...

KukgarE
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Post by KukgarE »

in other words shielding makes my pee pee go up when i get to 35
avoidiance makes my pee pee go up when i get to 100. for tanks that is
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Giiana
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Post by Giiana »

haha same, my brian overloaded shortly after starting section II. will try to read rest later =D

Guiscard
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Post by Guiscard »

Hren,

That was an excellent explanation of a concept I simply did not know. I really appreciate the lesson.

Question for you, on rangers of course, which is where in the mitigation specturm rangers tend to fall. I know from studying my class boards that we benefit much more from avoidance than mitigation -- many advocate maxxing out the Omens Avoidance AAs (Relfexive mastery) before even worrying about the Luclin Mitigation (Combat Stability) b/c we get such a higher return from avoidance. But, eventually, I've managed to max both and the difference is noticeable. I can't tank RS, but I can handle MPG in a way I could not prior to maxing my mitigation.

You say you tend to mitigate down to 5 out of 20 times the DI. Do you have a sense of what our well geared (i.e. not me) rangers reach? I think helping folks understand what the chain tanks can (and can't) do and how mitigation plays a role in that is important.

Having high avoidance is fun. I've pulled a mob and had the tank snoozing, and watched Miss, Miss, Dodge, Miss, Miss and just smiles. Having ranger mitigation, and my low AC, is less fun. I've also pulled a mob and seen 2000, 3000, 2000, miss, 4000 LOADING PLEASE WAIT. I'm just curious if you know where, once I'm well geared, my mitigation may end up.

Again, thanks for the astute and well explained analysis.

Andy/Guiscard

Hrendra
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Post by Hrendra »

Guiscard: Per the thread here, http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=monkbalance&message.id=7789&highlight=soft+cap+ac+warrior+knight+monk#M7789

"At the time of the PoP change to softcaps, the overall goal was to make the average dps (including mitigation, avoidance, block/dodge/etc.) taken for melee classes to be approximately: Warrior > Knight > Monk > Bard > Ranger = Beastlord = Rogue" (and now, = Berserker)

Because a lot of information has only been confirmed relatively recently, AND because not every class is as parse-happy as warriors, discovering just where mitigation alone falls in that line of melee is more difficult to pinpoint. However, even your own class boards advocate avoidance over mitigation, even though you're ostensibly a chain tank. If you want to find out exact numbers for each zone, all you have to do is go tank something for a night, and log all the numbers. Find highs and lows per each mob--then plug in the formula. Find out what you mitigate DI down to. My prediction would be in the DI9 range for the best. I'll try and find out more exact info.

You see, rangers have traditionally not been so interested in extreme parsing. Despite that, there's a good new thread here:
http://forums.interealms.com/ranger/showthread.php?t=46231&highlight=mitigation . If you do your own, and help out your class boards with the parsing, I'm sure they'd appreciate it.

The confusion often lies in the fact that while hardcapped mitigation helps everyone (through AA's, primarily), it's the return over softcap for mitigation that demonstrates true differential. I mitigate mobs down to DI3-5 regularly; that's my job, in all zones. I love rangers--Redi and Aedorhm are typically my xp group tanks, because I dislike xp'ing with Hren. To demonstrate with some arbitrary numbers, a ranger going from 1600 to 1900 AC might not notice any difference in tanking MPG, and turn into a red mist in RS at both levels of AC. However, once they hit 2kAC, suddenly life becomes much easier. Comparatively, a plate tank will experience jumps in capability with much smaller AC gains.

Another good post is here: http://forums.interealms.com/ranger/sho ... mitigation

Mitigation is best measured over time. A beastlord can tank RSS mobs because they have superior avoidance, decent hp, and relatively short mob lifespans. In a 30 second sample, anyone can look good tanking, particularly with high Avoidance. However, would you have that same beastlord tank Queen Pyrilonis? No, because you know over time, their inability to mitigate as effectively would kill them and the raid. Same with rangers. Rangers are exceptional offtanks because of the relatively short duration of offtanking, and their ability to grab and maintain aggro. This is a valuable part of their utility. However, a berserker would accomplish the same result; their snap aggro is strong, just somewhat less due to the 8 second recasts on their combat abilities. Bards mitigate better than rangers, but can't snap aggro.

What sets the plate tanks apart isn't their performance on xp mobs; it's their performance on raid mobs. That's the meat-and-potatoes of our progression--how much we can withstand.

As a random note, my favorite quote about AC is this:
"We were mostly guessing till about a year ago, when we got some info about the changes. [in PoP]
- Kavhok, SOE"
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Post by Redi »

If those more parse-minded than myself would care to, I can run some logs of me tanking in various zones. I don't have the inclination to parse it myself, though, so I'd want to send it off, if someone is that curious ;)

As for the discussion, as a Ranger who likes to tank, here's how I see things: avoidance helps me avoid more damage overall. Mitigation helps me avoid spikes. For when I'm tanking, I prefer mitigation. For when I'm taking a random swing from a nasty mob, avoidance is probably better.
As far as a raid role goes, while both are beneficial to me, mitigation is more important to someone assigned to tank - in much the same way a healing focus is better for a cleric than for me.
Redi of Qeynos - <The Keepers>
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Guiscard
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Post by Guiscard »

I guess I'd be willing to collaborate -- I don't have the gear or time to run the parsed, but I'd be willing to play around with the logs and mine the data.

Are there recommended tool for this? I have Yalp and EQ companion and play around to check my DPS, but have never run structured several hour parses simply b/c of my real-life. Otherwise, I might be inclined to use MS-Access or Excel and do some data slicing/dicing.

But I have time at my desk to play with logs, much more than I do to have Guiscard take a wack from the same mob for 2 hours.

Hrendra
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Post by Hrendra »

I've heard good things about Yalp, though I haven't used it personally.

My general method is simply to turn on log during boss fights, then observe all of my incidents of tanking. While I've certainly been smacked down quickly on occasion, most of the time I get a good 1-2 minute sample (longer if I'm MT) of hits. Then, I just go through the log in MS Word, Find/Replace all incidents of like, the mob's name, or HITS YOU FOR, replace it with the same words but in bold red letters, then I scan the log and pluck out the numbers. :)

It's more time-consuming than difficult. I only do it on occasion when I'm bored, out of curiosity, usually annoying Redi with random "woot, I mitigated her to DI3!" comments. =p
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Guiscard
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Post by Guiscard »

Okay well if an off-tanking ranger wants to send me some logs, I volunteer to structure a DI 1- 20 list for that mob.

Naldare
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Post by Naldare »

Damn Hrenda.. This is a great post on the benefits of AC, Shielding, and avoidance for tanking and all classes. Kudos to you for compiling it.

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Post by aanil »

Guiscard wrote:Okay well if an off-tanking ranger wants to send me some logs, I volunteer to structure a DI 1- 20 list for that mob.


I have all of my Logs going back to Nov 2002. Not to hard to strip it down to just me getting hit/missed. The hard part is knowing my AC, avoidance, and shielidng at any given point in time. So I'd have to find the points where I looted gear....
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Post by aanil »

Guiscard wrote:Question for you, on rangers of course, which is where in the mitigation specturm rangers tend to fall. I know from studying my class boards that we benefit much more from avoidance than mitigation -- many advocate maxxing out the Omens Avoidance AAs (Relfexive mastery) before even worrying about the Luclin Mitigation (Combat Stability) b/c we get such a higher return from avoidance. But, eventually, I've managed to max both and the difference is noticeable. I can't tank RS, but I can handle MPG in a way I could not prior to maxing my mitigation.

You say you tend to mitigate down to 5 out of 20 times the DI. Do you have a sense of what our well geared (i.e. not me) rangers reach? I think helping folks understand what the chain tanks can (and can't) do and how mitigation plays a role in that is important.


Ah.. rangers.. tanking? Both two and one of my favorite subjects! ;-)

Ever since I blew a boatload of dkp on elemental armour, I've been in the situation of needing to compare myself to the tanks I have in xp groups. My observations are "seat of the pants" coupled with an understanding of game mechanics, not from actual parsing. So take this as 'potentially useful information', not gospel (what Hrendra posted was Gospel, btw ;-)

All other things being equal, I consider my 2200ac to be roughly equal to a 1800 ac warrior or 1900ac knight.

But it's not a straightforward comparision: few plate tanks with AC even equal to mine have the same avoidance, shielding, skill mods, and AA abilities that comes with being a raiding ranger with a history of serious xp grinds not to mention a lifetap and rune proc junkie! Thus I've grouped with 2000 ac knights and had the cleric say I was easier to heal.

Another important factor: the N part of N*DI is determined by a large pseudo-random number being hashed into a table (albeit with modifiers both before and after the hash). My theory based on the available data is that each class has a range of tables, which appear to be selected by the difference in atk of the attacker and mitigation ac of the defender (the softcap of the mob for your class is the point at which you're on the best table for your class, additional AC is applied to the modifiers). From casual observation, at equal effective AC levels (a somewhat lower displayed number for the plate tank), the ranger tables have broader distributions than plate tanks, leading to more deviation in the post hash value of N:

When a 1800ac plate sees
12 08 02 14 15 11 07 12 10 09
A 2000ac ranger sees:
05 15 19 14 02 05 06 17 12 05

Same area under the curve - both sequences have the same average value of N, but the ranger spikes more than the plate tank. For a healer using CH, this can be problematic in borderline zones. Thus - mpg is a breeze: I can heal myself after slow (and melee solo with earthcaller for an exciting fight), and clerics and druids can reliably cast a percentage heal at 60 or 70% - I may be at either 15% or 50% when it lands, but they know I'll still be alive, and if they are slow or interrupted, my own patch will almost always give them another round, usually two, more with a crit. But take the moderate step up to RS, and while some clerics (geared to effectively use "medium speed" heals and HoTs, and/or skilled in canceling a ch to fast heal) have no trouble with me, many can't handle the variation in damage intake per round.

The probability that we will have a "bad round" is higher along with the probability we'll have a "good round" - this makes our damage intake much less predictable, marginalizing us in areas where a lesser geared plate tank is easier to keep alive despite having a higher average damage intake.

This is even more apparent when the mob has high atk. Before they nerfed GoD, the place was brutal: at 1800k/9k, I was getting pwned in barindu, and had trouble soloing even qinimi trash because of all the bad rounds - on mobs that hit 100-700, most of my hits where under 250 or over 550. After the nerf I was taking down named in qinimi, bow/melee mixing in Barindu, and by 2k/10, I was tanking for people doing Tipt and Vxed (although that, like RS now, could get exciting).

The reverse works in trivial zones with low atk mobs: We completely destroy low ac mobs with our atk and fewer nuke resists, while the difference between us and a plate tank becomes marginal. Thus rangers are the bomb in trivial zones, while in the hardest zones our unpredictable damage intake make us more demanding on healers than plate tanks we should outclass.

As for the "HP" indicator: HP and AC both are _much_ easier to aquire for plate tanks than rangers, but HP more so than AC. In general, I find that I outclass equal HP plates in mid tier zones like MPG and early to mid GoD, but this is due to the fact that I have substantially higher AC (plus other effects and sometimes AA): plate tanks with <12k buffed are typically before the point at which they have aquired solid AC gear - all 12k+ rangers have time+ gear with decent AC.

So, my focus on AC gear means I'm a decent XP tank.... but what does this mean for raiding?

I very rarely get one rounded, even by the nastiest mobs we face, and typically (not always) make it to round 3+ on 5k hitters. If I'm at 80% or higher and we have a tank death, I don't have to hit WS immediately or back off - I can step into the mob, hit taunt, and rip off a couple nukes and snares, confident that I'll live long enough for the next tank to pick up or to hit WS. This lets me cover our dps and healers (and the next tank when he's not getting heals), without hitting the panic button immediately on every tank switch - I can wait till I've taken a round or two, when I know it's really needed.

I can also (usually) get away with taking rampage if healers are on the ball, so have no qualms about tossing an early heal on the MT to take a spot on the rampage list in front of the clerics, without too much worry if I accidentally come in earlier than intended: I'll live long enough to step out of range, heal up, and step back in if needed.

So - fewer wasted WS cycles, a better ability to do a ranger's job of filling in the gaps when things are starting to get ugly, and a higher chance of surviving it to continue with dps and healing afterwards.

And shielding is virtually useless for any of it. It's a nice bonus, but not something I consider when I valuate gear. AC comes before all else. Well, on an 8:1 basis over HP or resists, equal to avoidance, assuming haste, mana pres, DD, and healing focii are maintained or improved, with a little consideration for melee/ranged dps skill modifiers, careful consideration of defensive skill modifiers, and excepting weapon/ranged slots... But still, AC is the first thing I look at ;-)
[70 Plainswalker] Aanil <Infinit>

Hrendra
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 6:17 pm

Post by Hrendra »

Thanks for your input, Aanil. It's good to see the perspective of an ranger who I know likes to tank, takes his fair share of hits, and whom I know enjoys analyzing the game and his own capabilities.

I interpret the N*DI much the same way you do, with mitigation tables split out by class.

On a purely subjective note, since the conversation has turned towards rangers: I box Cair regularly, so I'm very attuned to exactly how much healing I require in certain zones. When Redi would tank, I found the spikes were both more frequent and harder to predict. Hren kinda tanks like a gentle wave, some peaks, some valleys, but generally a gentle roll. Depending on the mob, ranger spikes much more, making it more challenging to heal, particularly before the AA reducing offhand ripostes whose name I can't think of at 4am. That AA made a tremendously noticeable difference, and I highly recommend it--and I don't even have it on any of my toons. =p

Btw, you crack me up with the "before all else..well accept for...." It's challenging to optimize yourself as a hybrid. Sure is fun, though. :)
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