Wednesday, June 4th EWK 1 Raid

[Seefamus]

I was very disappointed with the decision to disallow my Alt (Seef) from looting the Cold Steel Wingblade on this raid. I was told that because I already had two CotF weapons, I could not loot it and that I should not be weapon collecting. Yes, I already had two CotF weapons, but the Cold Steel Wingblade would have been an UPGRADE to my Royal Thex Mallet. I do not see anything in the raid loot rules that states Alts can only loot two weapons from each expansion.

There were two Cold Steel Wingblades that dropped on this raid, No other raiders needed the Wingblade and only two people rolled for their Alts. I had the highest roll and I was not allowed to loot one, but the other person got to. How is this fair? The worst thing about it was that the Wingblade was destroyed rather than letting my Alt loot it, despite the fact it was an upgrade for me and I had my Alt sitting at the raid NPC.

To top it all off, on the next raid a weapon dropped that nobody wanted or needed (including Alts), but Alts were allowed to random for it so they could hang it on their wall!!! This type of selective rule-making on the fly is very frustrating.

Seef

[Drusing]

I agree, it didn't hold up the raid, was an upgrade and no one else wanted it. There was already someone coming to loot an item and your alt was outside. This instance did disturb me. There are even two more weapons for a ranger with a lower Delay that benefits ranger a whole lot more with Discs, does that mean once they rot, you are not allowed to upgrade? If time is made for an alt to come in and loot an item, there really shouldn't be an issue with you looting the other that will rot, even if you have 100 weapons. It doesn't delay, deter or in anyway hurt the raid force.

[feolina]

I think it is more about the principle of how people are looting things for their alts.

If each person is able to continuously upgrade their alts weapons and say end up getting weapons that aren't as useful early on, while others are also rolling for their alts then essentially they have after upgrading wasted a weapon that someone else's alt could have gotten. To upgrade just because, isn't a good excuse to do it if others with the more proper class can use it.

So really it isn't a question of well nobody wanted this piece of loot, it is more of a question of did you loot something earlier that could have been used by someone else.

Maybe for future expansions and such when people loot a weapon for an alt it we will need to tag it as <only alt that wanted> but if others rolled, then you won't get another if you have your weapons (2 weapons for duel wielding alts, 1 for alts that don't duel wield). This would stop people from getting weapons that others alts might have more use for.

Having the raid leaders even allow alts to get equipment is a blessing for many of us.

[Seefamus]

If it's just the principle then why on the next raid were alts allowed to loot a weapon to just hang it on their wall?

The weapon I won earlier that night was my second CotF weapon and it was a huge upgrade. Was I supposed to forego looting that weapon because I expected to win another later that night. How could I possibly have known that?

Regardless of what happened earlier in the night, there was no reason to let the weapon rot. No one else had an alt there that could use it. My alt was right there, so I wouldn't be holding up the raid force. I won the roll and it was an upgrade. It makes absolutely no sense to me.

[Xslia]

I can solve this by removing the ability for alts to get gear period. Yes there is not a specific rule that says alts are not allowed to have 14 weapons banked because someone wanted to collect them. We do not allow weapon collection on mains.. it's not going to happen on alts either, but I do have a catch all rule that leaders can invoke when something does not make sense.

Your specific toon already had 2 prior weapons, as a matter of fact - one of which you even got earlier that night. So you wanted a 3rd weapon - just so you could SHELVE the other one - which someone ELSE could have used on their alt. What makes your alt more important to have 3 weapons where someone else does not even have the first one? If that was the best weapon for you - why not WAIT till it dropped before rolling on any shiny item that dropped. Weapons have been rotting for months.

So the person you were rolling against - had none for his toon, how fair would it have been to him to get nothing - and you to have 2 equipped and 1 in bank just because your dice were better than his.

Yes we do watch what is looted by whom and as leaders - our job is to look out for the ENTIRE raid force overall and try and address fairness - even when we do allow alts to have loot. If we see casters bid on a tanking item and a tank is bidding - yes we will say something.

Your dislike of our ruling on the matter is noted but we will continue to watch and stop raiders and alts from having gear that does not benefit their class or question collections of weapons. We will continue to oversee this raid force and look out for all raiders with as much fairness as we can.

If you are talking about the BG run which was done after EWK1 for spell runes - NOTHING was bidded off - people earned dkp for helping raiders get spell runes and all loot that was upgrades went to raiders FREE- rotting stuff was offered - and no one wanted for alts - then we offered raiders pretty much a FFA on it - they could tribute or put it on their house - but no alts - we had push issues.

Our sending tells on questionable choices is nothing new - Ashorty use to flat out tell someone - stop bidding or stop raiding. Our approach (Jaerlyn and mine) has been to try and educate the players in their choices, try and make them aware of what is their class stats. Granted it does not always work and then we have to question that person continuation of raiding with us.

So yes people will get tells and will continue to get tells from the leaders, as it's our obligation and duty to our entire body of raiders - not just one person.


Xslia

[jaerlyn]

If it's just the principle then why on the next raid were alts allowed to loot a weapon to just hang it on their wall?

And this happened... when?

[Xslia]

BTW what item on the BG raid were you saying sent to alts? we had push issues so nothing was even offered to alts

[Seefamus]

X, I agree to most of what you said. I'm all for letting someone else's alt that had only one weapon loot ahead of me if I had two. But two Wingblades dropped that night and only two people rolled. What was the point of destroying it when it was an upgrade for my alt?

I rolled on the earlier pieces because they were both HUGE upgrades to my alt, and they were both weapons geared towards a ranger. If I waited for a specific piece to drop I may never get another chance to roll on ANY other piece. If someone else had an alt that could use it then by all means let them loot it, but destroying it seemed wasteful and punitive to me.

It's akin to walking down the street and finding a $100 bill on the sidewalk, and instead of pocketing the money you burn it so no one gets to benefit.

[Xslia]

Again, you already had 2 COTF RAID weapons for an ALT. If our rules do not go in line with what you want for your own personal use, then there are other raid forces that may be more alt friendly and give you all the items you want for an alt.

[Xslia]

Actually found money on the street does has happened to me - found 80$ in the parking lot of Home Depot one day - it went into the church coffers the following Sunday.

The rotting item did have some use to benefit the part of the raid force - it was not destroyed as you think it has been without some benefit from that item.

[Seefamus]

If you are saying you turned in the weapon for guild tribute, then I still disagree with the choice. in my opinion, raid loot should only be used for tribute if it is not usable by any raiders or their alts... as stated in the rules. In this case it was an upgrade for my alt. That weapon probably gave 10k to 15k tribute points. I would gladly have given you a million tribute points (20 primordial compound bows) in return for looting the weapon.

Also, it cannot be expected that everyone's alt (and main for that matter) is going to gear up at the same rate. A raider who has 100% raid attendance is going to gear up their main and their alt much faster than a raider who has 2% attendance. it's just probability and statistics. Why should a person be given preferential treatment for having low raid attendance? That just seems counter-intuitive to me.

You're right, this is just a game and in the end it's all just trivial. I would just like to see more consistency in the rules and how they are applied. This is the end of my rant and I'm letting it go now.

[jaerlyn]

You still haven't answered my question.

Considering the accusations you made, I suggest you do so.

[feolina]

Been pretty consistent with stopping raiders who have tried to get additional weapons just because.

I have seen it lots of times where they have stopped people from trying to get an additional weapon, even when nobody else wanted it.

[Xslia]

This is way to much drama for an alt character. I've reached my limit. Instead of being THANKFUL we allow alts to have loot, this is what I get - sorry but I just want MORE for my alt. And because I'm here more then X person, my alt deserves loot over that person...

I do not RAID for anyone ALTS - not even my own. Anything we give to alts is a bonus, not an right of requirement.

If you want guaranteed loot for an alt - then find a raid force that grants it. It will not be this one.

[Seefamus]

Jaerlyn, what I was referring to was the BG raid immediately afterwards. It was either a weapon or the pink scepter, I forget. However, an alt did not end up looting it. It was offered to alts, but no alt needed it. Then it was given FFA to anyone who wanted it to hang on a wall or tribute or whatever.

I'm not out to cause any drama, as I said, I let it go. You are the leaders and you make the rules. I will follow the rules. I was just voicing my opinion to see if anyone else felt the same way. Next time I'll just keep my opinion to myself.